Inspired by the reflections of Dr. Winona Wheeler in a class discussion preceding the OHMA workshop series event, “Land Back! The Importance of Oral History in First Nation Land Claims Cases,” Max Peterson reflects on his experience helping to facilitate intergenerational learning through a student oral history project.

“And so my job was to interpret and mediate, and be the bridge, an oskapweyos [helper]. And that’s why experiential learning and community service learning is so absolutely fundamental to all my courses. It’s that, I can't just teach standing in front of a class. Students aren’t going to get a whole lot out of that, as much as they would getting out there. [. . .] In one of my classes that I teach on indigenous ways of knowing, I volunteer all my class, all the students—and there’s usually about fifty in there at a time—to volunteer at a powwow, to work at registration or in the childcare area, or working with the elders and veterans lounge and looking after them. [. . .] And they interact with people, as human beings. They each do a four-hour shift. And that four-hour shift gives them more insight, I think, than twenty hours of classroom time. [. . .] So that’s kind of what I see my role as, is bridging.

— Dr. Winona Wheeler, Oral History Workshop class discussion, Feb. 18th, 2021

“The first, very first project that got any kind of traction, the first like half-decent thing that I did in the classroom, was an oral history project. [. . . ] [It] wasn't Mr. Hunt wah-wah-wah about encomienda or the Declaration of Independence, but it was real talk between family members—.[. . .] I think it was maybe the first time that I realized that what an educator really is is a facilitator.

 — Cosby Hunt, oral history interview with Cosby Hunt, Oct. 27, 2020



I first became involved with the Real World History program in the fall of 2017, and it was the kind of history class I could only have dreamed about when I was in high school. Real World History is a year-long, after-school, applied history course open to high school students in Washington, DC, with two distinct semesters:

·       Fall semester: Students do a deep-dive on the Great Migration, the mass migration of Black Americans out of the Jim Crow South to cities in the North and West (1915-1970), by reading The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson and conducting oral history interviews with elderly Washingtonians who participated in the Migration. Their interviews are ultimately archived in the Real World History Collection at People’s Archive of the DC Public Library.

·       Spring semester: Students are exposed to the field of public history through an internship at a historic site or museum in DC and compete in the National History Day competition.

As a 23-year-old who had only studied history and African American studies, co-teaching with Cosby Hunt, the creator/teacher of Real World History, was my first experience teaching. I was well-versed in the content and had oral history experience, but I didn’t know the first thing about how to teach it. I tried to remain an observer, following Mr. Hunt’s lead, but he instructed me to spearhead the oral history project. As a new teacher, I suffered from imposter syndrome, and in my mind, I was (and am) still the student, not the teacher.

But when students began submitting their oral history projects, the interviews exceeded my expectations. I realized that by facilitating a structured encounter between young people and the elders in their families and communities I could help the students learn about local history, the discipline of history itself, and important life lessons. Regardless of whether or not I was fumbling the instruction, students were learning—from their elders—much more than I, myself, could impart. Thus, my true role was to connect students to the real teachers. This experiential, community based learning would be far more impactful and long-lasting than their retention of the content that Cosby and I could teach.

While Cosby, a skilled educator, could take the lead on the instruction, I could develop structures to help students take full advantage of the relationships they build with their narrators. With the benefit of hindsight, I can now see that Cosby was filling the role of the elder mentor-teacher, allowing me to learn what he had learned as a new teacher in the early 1990s: “That what an educator really is, is a facilitator.”

While the oral histories that Real World History students conduct are an amazing collection of primary source material on the history of the Great Migration to Washington (as well as DC history more broadly), I was struck by the intergenerational dynamics of the interview encounters. Though I already had experience conducting my own interviews and listening to oral history interviews conducted by other professionals, the dynamics between teenagers and older adults led to entirely different narratives than might have been collected by adult interviewers. Though these intergenerational interactions are uncommon in everyday society, oral history provides an occasion for people of different generations to share in conversation and build relationships. Most of the students I’ve worked with have very few, if any, relationships with older people outside of elderly family members. For most students, this makes identifying a narrator for their interview one of the most nerve-racking components of the project.

These kinds of interactions, between younger people and elders, are rare enough that some narrators even remark upon it. Referencing a student/narrator field trip to see “One Way Ticket, Jacob Lawrence’s Migration Series,” Henry Breedlove expresses just that:

Excerpt from Henry Breedlove Interview, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:272293

The emphasis Mr. Breedlove places on the social interaction between young and old is particularly insightful: He doesn’t point to the interview as what was most impactful for him, but rather that a group of young people would want to socialize and spend time in community with elderly folks.

While it’s easy to romanticize the idea of young and old coming together, these interactions come with their own challenges and present important learning opportunities for the students. Generational segregation often leads young people to accept stereotypes of the elderly but collaborating with their narrator over the course of a semester (through pre-interview discussions and the interview itself) provides a number of occasions for unlearning ageist beliefs. Sometimes, these understandings are eroded through the process of developing a relationship with someone. Other times, the narrators address them directly:

Excerpt from Reverend Irene Pierce interview part 1, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:272273

This is a fascinating moment of intergenerational communication. Whether or not the student was implying that Rev. Pierce has a good memory for an elderly person, the comment plays into stereotypes about the mental acuity of older adults and sparks an interesting back-and-forth in which Rev. Pierce challenges the students’ beliefs about the elderly. 

Students aren’t the only ones who come into the interview with preconceived notions about the other party. There are times at which it’s clear that the generational disconnect is on the part of the narrator who may be addressing the interviewer as a representative for “kids these days” as opposed to an individual. The following excerpt is from an interview where the narrator spends a significant amount of time dispelling what she assumes the student believes about her upbringing.

Excerpt from Jettie Brown interview, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:282582

Part of the realization that my role was that of a facilitator was not only my understanding of the fact that older adults have so much to offer, but that students do as well. In reviewing students’ interviews I’m always impressed with the maturity, respect, and attentiveness they show narrators even when they are occasionally being talked at instead of talked to/with. On the occasions where that does happen, students always handle it with grace and almost always manage to move the interview to a space of more meaningful reflection.

Well aware of the fact that young people get a lot of unsolicited advice from older people but simultaneously recognizing the opportunity in this intergenerational encounter, Cosby and I have begun to encourage students to develop a question that prompts narrators to dispense genuine advice rooted in their own life experience. Students often find effective ways of framing such a question before concluding their interview:

Excerpt from Deacon Clarence Haywood interview, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:277111

Excerpt from Sarah Ann Hardy interview, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:277080

The real value of history, for me, lies in studying the past in order to better people’s lives here and now. By treating working-age people as the proprietors of the present moment, we preclude ourselves from harnessing the immense potential of our multi-generational society. Elderly people are not “the past” or “the previous generation,” and young people are not “the future.” We are all here in this moment together, and facilitating meaningful exchange across generational lines allows us to take advantage of what everyone has to offer:

Excerpt from Kathy Senior interview, DC Public Library, People’s Archive, Dig DC, Real World History Oral History Project. http://hdl.handle.net/1961/dcplislandora:272297

An educator’s role as a facilitator between students and the elders in their family or community bridges this gap. The entrenchment of generational separation makes this role vital and there is valuable information to be shared in a learning style that cannot be replicated in the classroom. Oral history interviews provide a structure that empowers students to learn through relationship with an elder. This requires that we accept that elders can speak for themselves and that students can facilitate their own learning. Ultimately, my hope is that through these interviews some intergenerational solidarity can be built that students will take far beyond their history class.

 For full transcripts of interview excerpts featured in this piece, click here.

Max Peterson is a part of the 2020-2021 cohort at OHMA. Though he was born and raised in New Hampshire, Max currently lives in Washington, DC, where he works with high school students through the Real World History program and is an oral history assistant at the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Max is passionate about extra-curricular learning and facilitating broader engagement with history both within and outside of museums. Currently, he is developing a master’s thesis on student oral histories and the Real World History oral history project. In writing his thesis, Max created an exhibit using interviews with the creator of the Real World History program.